An Enemy in the Oval Office?

Comments

[this is good]
Great info here JudgeBob. It would not be a good thing.
[this is good]
For certain he is a racist. He was a Muslim. Is he really Christian? If so, why won't he renounce the damnable doctrines of Islam which sanctify imperialism, genocide & terror?

There are no good choices in the current field.We need to revolt, dump McCain and nominate a genuine Conservative to run against Obama on Conservative principles.
I reviewed McCain early on along with Romney and loosely, Huckabee. They each had problems but nothing compared to a literal enemy of the state. I believe Barack is hiding his Islamic faith as a plant from 20 years ago when he chose a church that closely represents Islamic values in its racism and blame for everyone but themselves.
[this is good]
Yes, I've been wondering that for months now. It seems like most of the nation has buried it's head in the sand!! I have seen absolutely NO evidence of Christianity in Obama! Maybe I have my own head in the sand, but I still have hopes that we will get neither Billary nor Obama.
I think the Dems have so damaged their party this election that McCain will win, but I'm not holding my breath since the last election when here in California we ran a fiscal conservative/social liberal against Nancy Pelosi. Look who sits at the top of that half of the legislature. I no longer hold out hope, but I fight on for the principal of the matter.
Most of those quotes are out of context, especially the first one where you visibly omit why he looked up to his brother in order to make it seem like it was solely because his brother was a Muslim. If he had turned away from his Muslim family members, I am sure that someone would be calling him out on having no "family values". Most children respect or admire their family members, regardless of what their views are.

Dreams From My Father is a memoir, that recounts his early years in Jakarta [in a predominantly Muslim country]. As a memoir, it also tells about the racial attitudes of the people he grew up with, the social expectations of those racists, and what was expected of him by them. I'm not seeing how any of those quotes reflect the current attitude of Obama, particularly as they are in the past tense and describe his relations with the racists and racist society that he grew up with.

The quote that he will "stand with the Muslims" does not demonstrate any kind of anti-Americanism, but that he will defend the defense-less if more discriminatory measures are aimed at them [they are afraid of being sent to Guantanamo or other secret prisons, and impounded without rights because of racial profiling.] Remember that the US terrorist watch-list [a lovely reminder of McCarthy's undisclosed blacklist] has reached three-quarters of a million people - anyone could be on that list and get arrested just for boarding a plane.

Even President Bush is being more pro-Palestine now; everyone is supporting a two-state solution to Israel/Palestine, not just Obama. It's not and should not be a primary issue for an American election campaign, so there's no need to speak about it up front when there are more relevant things to talk about.

It's a ridiculous conspiracy theory to accuse Barack Obama of wanting to enforce sharia law in America, especially since he has done nothing to suggest that he would. Oh, but he has a tangential relationship to a man from the home country of his father who has a radical, unpopular, and never-will-be-enforced goal. But wait! It turns out that was just a rumour [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7115387.stm] after all, and his agreement with the nation's Muslims was to prevent discrimination against the minority. This accusation falls apart when you see that Raila Odinga is an Anglican, not a Muslim. So, why is Barack Obama an advocate of sharia? And how can you accuse him of that when you also fault him for being a member of a radical Christian church?

[this is good]
Any fool who votes for this MUSLIM TERRORIST needs to be horsewhipped !!!
Another thing: just because radicals endorse him, doesn't mean he endorses them. That jerkoff Catholic [I forget his name] who endorses McCain is not endorsed by McCain.
[this is good]
Am I just off my beam? or does anyone else see Mr. Chumbler coming from out there in left field?

Oh, but he has a tangential relationship

Nothing tangential about it. He campaigned for the man who promised to apply Sharia to the entire country.

And how can you accuse him of that when you also fault him for being a member of a radical Christian church?

The article speaks for itself. The church is the closest representation of Islamic value he could find. As a politician he had to find a Christian labeled church.
Except that [BBC news posted above http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7115387.stm]

Kenyan Muslims deny Sharia claims
Kenyan Muslim leaders have dismissed as propaganda allegations that an opposition party promised to introduce Sharia for Muslims if it won elections.

The National Muslim Leaders Forum said its deal with the Orange Democratic Movement was to end the current discrimination against Muslims.

Christian leaders have been calling for the pact to be made public to end angry speculation ahead of December's polls.

Roughly one-third of Kenya's population of 34 million is Muslim.

Recent opinion polls show 45% of those interviewed support ODM's Raila Odinga compared to 43% who favour President Mwai Kibaki, who is running on a Party of National Unity ticket.

Rendition probe

Muslim leaders decided to make the pact public after a document circulated on the internet claimed that Mr Odinga's ODM had pledged to introduce Sharia in parts of the country where Muslims are in the majority.


"There was a fear that Muslims will force their faith on other people, Islam does not allow suppression of other religions and we will be the last to advocate for this," said Abdullahi Abdi of the National Muslim Leaders Forum.

Instead the memorandum of understanding, signed in August, states that Mr Odinga has pledged to defend Muslims against harassment and victimisation by state security forces who claim to be fighting terrorism.

If the ODM leader wins, he promises to set up a commission to investigate renditions of Muslims to Somalia, Ethiopia and the US detention camp at Guantanamo Bay on the island of Cuba.

The document also commits Mr Odinga to initiate policies to redress the present marginalisation of Muslims living in the Coast and North-East provinces.


It all turned out to be a grossly exaggerated rumour because the anti-discrimination agreement between the Muslim council and Odinga was not publicly disclosed. Then when it was, it turned out NOT to be a promise to bring Sharia [which doesn't make any sense for Odinga since he is, as I said above, a Christian]. Do you have any evidence that isn't hearsay?

And what's your evidence for calling the Trinity church "the closest representation of Islamic value he could find"? According to the research already done by Snopes [http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/church.asp], Trinity Church is "unapologetically Christian" and is not as radical as 20 seconds of sound bites [extracted from 30 years of sermons] makes it seem. It seems only as bad as the Westboro Baptist Church, or Pat Robertson, if that.
Your link is worthless (Error 404)

You are just wrong whether mis-informed or distorting the truth I don't know. this link will take you to a picture of the document that proves sharia was to be instilled.
http://eakenya.org/newsevents/article.htm?id=8
The so-called oppression of Muslims is largely due to Islamic attacks. A Christian church was burned with 50 Christians inside including women and children. This is terrorism being prosecuted by Muslims on non-Muslims. Not too surprising considering Kenya's proximity to Chad Darfur Somalia.

20 seconds of sound bites

Patently untrue. The more we hear of his sermons the more radical and extreme he is shown to be. I have heard entire sermons and nothing of those soundbites have been taken out of context and those sermons are not a few. This doctrine is right on their introduction handout. This version of Christianity is based on Marxist ideology and comes from South American Chavez/Guevara mindsets. It is as far from Christianity as you can get. It is separatist, and Wright's sermons are nuts with identifying Christ as a poor black man under rich white oppressors. Rich white oppressors is a theme that comes up often in those sermons and yes, that lines up pretty well with radical Islam's view of America.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7115387.stm

That document explicitly says that it only applies to the two Muslim-dominant provinces of Kenya, not the whole country. It would effectively allow the Muslims in those provinces to live according to their own law [Sharia]. This is similar to Sudan, before the civil war, with its Muslim Arab north and Black Christian/Animist south, and a number of other African countries that contain two or more distinct cultures and are effectively multiple nations in one. The most important thing to note, however, are the last four clauses; the Muslim Council will campaign among the Kenyan muslims and get them to ALL vote for Odinga. What politician wouldn't jump at the opportunity to get one-third of the vote guaranteed for himself? What politician wouldn't lie and exaggerate to get that? You're looking at Odinga as some especially evil, treasonous man, when he is just as bad as any politician. The recent accusations are only going to guarantee that he doesn't live up to the agreement.

I guess you don't understand Black America.

Why do you keep going back to the BBC's report and interpretation when I've shown you a picture of the actual document complete with signatures. Read it for yourself. It gives authority to decide which churches are allowed in the whole state. It gives a lot more authority away to Muslims than the BBC suggests.


I guess you don't understand Black America.

I know racism when I see it. When blame for every ill, real or imagined is laid on one race by another, that's racism. Do blacks have difficulty in America today. Yes. Some of that is their own fault. Driving while black should not be an issue in the 21st. century. But neither should the disparity between crime rates. Each race is facing far greater danger from its own members than from any other race but, in inter-racial crime a white man is 60 times more likely to die at the hands of a black man than vice versa. So profiling is an issue. I'm sorry. but its not my fault. I am not trying to keep the black man down.
I reposted the BBC link because you thought it was broken.

The powers given to the Muslims [if that agreement is fully accepted by Kenyan parliament, which odds are it will not and Odinga must know this] would effectively make those two states semi-autonomous, much in the way that Belgium, the UK, Canada and other countries have semi-autonomous regions with their own legal codes and yes, their own problems and issues that go with that. It is not the end of the world for Kenyan Muslims to exercise self-determination in regions where they are the majority, as long as it is done peacefully and neither side tries to abuse the other.

Race in America is much more complex than you put it. It's more complex than either of us can discuss, perhaps more complex than anyone can discuss in its entirety. Neither of us understand Black America, but I understand enough to know that what is going on is deeper than just plain old racism; there's identity crises and many other legitimate problems. Neither of us can understand what is going on with regards to Afro-American culture and identity, so neither of us should pass judgement on it. If anything, Obama should be judged entirely on his own merits, not the merits of his race and background.

Given Obama wants to represent us all, given that this stuff affects us all, given that Obama has chosen this church which is an oddity among black Christian churches, I feel I have a responsibility to exercise my judgment on how Obama deals with race issues and how the man he called his mentor deals with race issues.

The idea that we have no point of reference from which to form an oppinion???? because I ain't black??

In 1972 I left a tiny little town in rural Oklahoma and moved into Anaheim, Ca. Two things of note were happening in my life at that time. My parents were going through a nasty divorce and I had just hit a growth spurt so that my pants rode high and my speech had that strong twang that you hear from down South. Anaheim was no friend to a non-conformist. I had no idea where the next attack was coming from or when, only the regular assurance that it was coming. Now I may not have an understanding of what it means to know that my kids will have to live through the same crap or that none of my family in 3 generations could advance in social status, but I am intimately aware of what it is to go through daily violent harassment including threat to life and limb. Maybe you don't have anything in your life to relate to what Blacks experience, but I feel I've got a pretty good handle on it. I've also lived outside this country in a place where skin pigment really didn't matter. And I know what it is to meet a person of color who does not wear a chip on their shoulder.
The difference between being Black in America and being White in America is more than just discrimination and violence. There are cultural issues, historical issues, political issues and more. Black America has a cultural history unique to that of Black France or Black Britain. Just because someone in another country has the same skin tone as someone in this country does not mean they share the same thoughts. It's not just a "chip on their shoulder," as you like to simplify it.

Jeremiah Wright's sermons may not be typical of "Black America," but they come from that same diverse cultural heritage. You need to understand the context before you can judge.

You can't judge Obama by his past mistakes and former attitudes, just as you can't judge Bush by his past cocaine abuse or his desertion or who his father is. You have to look at what is current, what is part of their modern attitude, their modern context, and the relevance of their character to the presidential race. Do you really think that, even if Obama were super racist, he'd be able to pass any anti-whitey laws? Or that if Bush was a cokehead in 2000, he would have been able to single-handedly end the war on drugs? Politicians do not get elected based on their personal character, but their platforms, and they often [usually; always] contradict their own beliefs just to get empowered. Tony Blair, for instance, immediately converted to Catholicism after he stepped down, and many of his policies as PM contradicted Catholic teachings [presumably his own beliefs]. Obama is no more sneaky or tricky or dishonest than any other politician, he can just cover it up by bringing immense, empty hope to his supporters.
Past!?! Former!?! He entered this presidential race calling Wright his mentor. His affiliations with the criminal elements are coming out because they entail campaign parties in their homes. These are not past attitudes. This is the evidence of a poor administrator at best and more likely crooked at worst. These are current issues because they are only changed when it is politically expedient to do so.
In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful!
All praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds.
The Most Beneficient, the Most Merciful.
Master of the Day of Judgment blah, blah, blah

MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN HON. RAILA AMOLO ODINGA REPRESENTING THE ORANGE DEMOCRATIC MOVEMENT (ODM) AND NATIONAL MUSLIM LEADERS FORUM (NAMLEF)

PURPOSE: To establish a lasting relationship between Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga, hereinafter referred to as the Candidate, and the National Muslim Leaders, hereinafter referred to as the Leaders.

This MOU states as follows:

WHEREAS the Candidate - who recognizes Islam as the only true religion- is seeking to become the next President of the Republic of Kenya;

WHEREAS the Leaders recognize the Candidate as the only presidential candidate who has the interests of the Kenyan Muslim community at heart;

WHEREAS the Candidate has pledged to fully reinstate and protect the rights of the Kenyan Muslims when, InshaAllah, he becomes the 4th president of the Republic of Kenya;

WHEREAS the Leaders represent a peaceful and God-fearing Kenyan community that has been oppressed and discriminated against by the current and previous governments, and

WHEREAS the Candidate freely acknowledges that, indeed, the current and previous governments have failed to recognize and protect the rights of the Kenyan community;

The Parties agree as follows:

(i) That the Leaders forthwith endorse the Candidate as the official 2007 presidential candidate of the Kenyan Muslim Community.

(ii) That the Leaders will campaign vigorously for the Candidate to ensure his resounding victory in the 2007 presidential election.

(iii) That the Leaders will work hard to ensure that all (or at least the majority) of Kenyan Muslim faithful vote overwhelmingly for the Candidate at the 2007 General Election.

(iv) That the Leaders will deploy all resources at their disposal to support the Candidate's campaigns throughout the country.

(v) That the Candidate, when, InshaAllah, he becomes President of Kenya will:

a) Ensure that the Coast Province shall henceforth be known as JIMBO LA PWANI and shall have full autonomy in Governance in all matters apart from National Defense and International Accreditation. In addition, while freedom of worship will be upheld at the JIMBO LA PWANI, the Council of Islamic leaders shall be permitted to have an oversight role to monitor activities of ALL other religions and any applications for religious activities and institutions will require their approval. They shall have the right to deny approval to cults and other evil practices.

b) Within 6 months re-write the Constitution of Kenya to recognize Shariah as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Qu'ran for Muslim declared regions.

c) With immediate effect dismiss the Commissioner of Police who has allowed himself to be used by heathens and Zionists to oppress the Kenyan Muslim community.

d) Disband the imprerialist Anti-Terror Police Unit (ATPU) that was set up for the sole purpose of terrorizing, harassing, intimidating and deporting innocent Kenyan Muslims to Guantanamo Bay.

e) Ensure THAT ALL MUSLIMS residing within the Republic of Kenya, and especially those who reside in the North Eastern Province shall be granted majimbo status no less favourable and on similar terms with JIMBO LA PWANI, within SIX MONTHS of Raila Amollo Odinga being sworn in as President.

f) No Muslim residing in Kenya whether a citizen, visitor or relative of any of the above shall be subjected to any process involving the laws of a foreign coutnry and in particular any Muslim arrested for or suspected of Terrorism or any other International crime shall only be tried within the borders of Kenya and shall be granted a competent lawyer of he/her choice at the expense of the Government.

g) Within 1 year facilitate the establishment of a Sharia court in every Kenyan divisional headquarters.

h)Popularize Islam, the only true religion, in the Coast and North Eastern Regions by ordering every primary school in Kenya in the regions to conduct daily Madrassa classes.

i) Impose a total ban on open-air gospel crusades by worshippers of the cross in the Coast and North Eastern regions.

j) Outlaw gospel programs (preaching, purported faith healing, etc.,) on KBC, the National Broadcaster.

k) Impose a total ban on the public consumption of alcoholic beverages in the Coast and North Eastern Regions and their towns of Mombasa, Malindi, Lamu, Garissa, Wajir, Mandera, Kwale, Vanga, Lunga Lunga, and all other Muslim populated urban centres of Kenya whose population is at least 40% (forty percent) Muslim.

l) Quash the recent legaization of innazi, busa, muratina, kaluvu, and all other haram beverages.

m) Close down Farmer's Choice in Jimbo La Pwani and Jimbo la Kashkazini Mashariki and other factories that process and package swine and other haram products in regions populated by Muslims including the Coast and North Eastern regions.

n) Impose an immediate ban on women's public dressing styles that are considered immoral and offensive to the Muslim faith in the Muslim regions of the Coastal and North Eastern Regions. This ban will apply to Muslims and non-Muslims alike, in these regions and will include all visitors whether domestic or foreign tourists.

vi) In consideration for the above and to enable and assist ODM and the Candidate win the National elections and the Presidency of the Republic of Kenya, NAMLEF and its affiliate organizations hereby undertake to fully support the ODM as a party and Raila Amollo Odinga as a presidential candidate in all ways, and to mobilize all Muslims for this cause.

vii) In furtherance of the above, and within a maximum of Seven (7) days hereof, NAMLEF and its affiliate orgainzations shall issue a joint statement declaring that all Muslims should support and vote for Raila Amollo Odinga and ODM.

viii) In addition, NAMLEF have impressed upon Jajib Balala who is present herein that he should step down in favour of Raila Odinga in the Presidential nomination exercise within ODM, due to the fact that Raila Amolo Odinga has confirmed his support for all the aspirations of the JIMBO LA PWANI and the Kenyan Muslim community.

ix) THAT subsequently, NAMLEF and its affiliate organizations shall engage in active campaigns for Raila Amollo Odinga and ODM throughout the Republic and impress upon Muslim, publicly and emphatically, the requirement to vote ODM and Raila Amollo Odinga.

Dated this 29th day of August 2007, Mombasa Kenya

Yes, I read that.

n) Impose an immediate ban on women's public dressing styles that are considered immoral and offensive to the Muslim faith in the Muslim regions of the Coastal and North Eastern Regions. This ban will apply to Muslims and non-Muslims alike, in these regions and will include all visitors whether domestic or foreign tourists.

l) Quash the recent legaization of innazi, busa, muratina, kaluvu, and all other haram beverages.

j) Outlaw gospel programs (preaching, purported faith healing, etc.,) on KBC, the National Broadcaster.

i) Impose a total ban on open-air gospel crusades by worshippers of the cross in the Coast and North Eastern regions.

h)Popularize Islam, the only true religion, in the Coast and North Eastern Regions by ordering every primary school in Kenya in the regions to conduct daily Madrassa classes.

g) Within 1 year facilitate the establishment of a Sharia court in every Kenyan divisional headquarters.

) No Muslim residing in Kenya whether a citizen, visitor or relative of any of the above shall be subjected to any process involving the laws of a foreign coutnry and in particular any Muslim arrested for or suspected of Terrorism

d) Disband the imprerialist Anti-Terror Police Unit (ATPU) that was set up for the sole purpose of terrorizing, harassing, intimidating and deporting innocent Kenyan Muslims to Guantanamo Bay.

b) Within 6 months re-write the Constitution of Kenya to recognize Shariah as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Qu'ran for Muslim declared regions.

Council of Islamic leaders shall be permitted to have an oversight role to monitor activities of ALL other religions and any applications for religious activities and institutions will require their approval. They shall have the right to deny approval to cults and other evil practices.

These issues aren't out of date, they are directly related to the present day issues of national security vs. Islamic influence on national culture. If Odinga is Christian, he certainly isn't operating on pro-Christian principals. With the activist Muslims backing Odinga, it was no secret what these people were up to when Obama and the professional campaigner were assisting Odinga.









n) in the Muslim regions of the Coastal and North Eastern Regions.
j) on KBC, the National Broadcaster.
i) in the Coast and North Eastern regions.
h) in the Coast and North Eastern Regions
) standard "this is Kenya, not America" spiel
d) the sole purpose of terrorizing, harassing, intimidating and deporting innocent Kenyan Muslims to Guantanamo Bay.
b) for Muslim declared regions.

"national security vs. Islamic influence on national culture" sounds like a very constructed conflict. Especially considering that this agreement applies to the Muslim-dominant areas, not the whole nation. Especially considering that most nations don't have a "national culture." Does America even have one? It seems to me that even countries with mostly identical origins have vastly different regional cultures - Kenya is just showing an extreme example of such.

You are dead wrong.
n) Muslims and non-Muslim alike. They may as well have ceded the territory to a separate Muslim nation.
j) KBC National Broadcaster. Basically the only national broadcaster in Kenya controlled by Islam.
l) does not specify 40% Muslim areas or any other specification. Only that harem beverages be banned. Harem vs. Halal. Muslim tradition of 'allowed or not allowed. Strictly factional Muslim tradition not in the Qu'ran or the Haditha. That's a problem for many Muslims as well as non-Muslims.
i) Why is it okay for mosques to be in non-Muslim areas but not for Churches to be in Muslim areas. This is stupid on its face. If they can proselytize in non-Muslim areas then non-Muslims can proselytize in Muslim areas. You give an inch and these Wabiterroxtremists will take the world.
h) This is marrying the Madrases and the government. less than 40% total Muslims in the country and they are trying to get this religion instated as the state religion via the schools. Again not specifying region or percentages.
When have you heard moderate Muslims condemn terrorists? Cair for example? One in 3 million actually names groups and individuals in terror organizations with whom they condemn their activities and their stated goals. These Muslims either approve the extremist actions within Kenya or they are the extremists within Kenya. Muslims do not criticize Islam.
b) The constitution of the state of Kenya was to be rewritten. You really do dream the nicest things about these people. History does not support your assumption. At 20% of the population the Muslims begin their aggressive push for Sharia in local courts, this country is nearing 40%. They mean to have Sharia rule all of Kenya in every court.

Go look at the history of Muslim takeovers. Look at Lebanon that's pretty recent. They do not take the government by region or sub-state. At 40% they believe they own the state. Go look at Chad and Darfur and Somalia. What percentage were they before they started killing and driving out Christians, Jews and varying factions of Islam? You must understand how ignorant you are to the Islamic threat. These people do not want the best for us all. They have no upbringing in a land that values peace and life. They have an upbringing in a land and culture where hatred is broadcast on national TV, Radio, mosques, political leaders, colleges. Check the videos of first and second grade school children marching in uniform and doing military manuevers and making death pledges in Iran and Syria. Pakistan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia all have Wahabis training their school children. They don't march to my knowledge but you can believe they are being taught the same kind of hatred.
n) Yes, I have basically been saying that. There are a lot of countries that may as well be two or more countries, yet are not.
j) Prohibiting faith healers and other mumbo jumbo on public TV sounds like something the West has already done.
l) this is no better or worse than prohibitions in America - prohibition on alcohol, absinthe, drugs etc.
i) yes this one is unfair, but then, we don't know how much preaching and converting Muslims do in the rest of Kenya, or if anyone listens to them - remember, this agreement is supposed to combat Kenyan discrimination against Muslims.
h) every primary school in Kenya IN THE REGIONS [i.e. the Muslim-dominated regions specified]. This is not much worse than Catholic schools in the West, or prayer in school etc etc. The West once married education and religion, it isn't an explicitly Muslim thing.

"They are not speaking out against terrorists so they must be terrorists!" is not great reasoning. It raises suspicions, but it proves nothing. Really, it only justifies McCarthy-style blacklists--Ah! Charlie Chaplin never condemned Stalin in any of his films so he must be a communist! Let's run him out of the country! Remember that throughout the Red Scare of communist blacklists and paranoid suspicion, only a very few turned out to be commie spies [I can't find any lists of real "subversives" the blacklists actually caught].

A quick google search turns up several resources and news sites regarding the growing, vocal groups of moderate, liberal and anti-jihadist Muslims.
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2226
http://www.islamfortoday.com/khan08.htm
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2001/12/calling-islamism-the-enemy.html
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/1255
etc etc

b) It is the duty of the Kenyan government and Kenyan people to resist the imposition of Sharia on the entire population. If Sharia is just being used as family court for Muslims, and the civil code of Kenya remains intact for the rest of the country, then I see little problem.

Here's a fun fact about anti-Islamic paranoia: I don't really care that much. Those countries are dumps, they have always been dumps, and they will continue to be dumps until the people get wealthy and realize that religion stops them from enjoying their wealth. Poor people are always the most feverishly devoted and insane, religious people are always the most dogmatic, and desperate losers and loners are always the most easily brainwashed. When you have craphole states full of desperate religious nutjobs [hello Louisiana], you're gonna have a bad time. The problem has never been that Islam is EEEEEVIL, it's always been that religious people with nothing else to do are total jerks.

Clarification: I have no problem with people having faith, it's just that most [all?] of the really nutty ones in every faith would be nice people if they just had HBO. Point in case: my friends from Bangladesh grew up in a very affluent family that lived by Western middle class standards in a very poor country. They were raised without religion, and are actually ignorant of the specifics of Islam. They also think it is quite distasteful and sexist.

Here's where I get my suspicions. And I have presented them to you before. You are arguing points you know I have answered already on other discussions. I don't appreciate this. It is a form of dishonesty and in my mind is meant to keep me busy getting nowhere when I could be talking to somebody who actually has an open mind. If this continues, I will block your commentary.

a new list: Muslims disseminate misinformation using our top accredited organizations.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/066chpzg.asp?pg=1
Muslims stand up against Western offense of Islam but not against Muslim offense, rather my experience in conversation with them is that they obfuscate, excuse, or deny factual history.
http://www.usawakeup.org/
Western intolerant tolerance is making way for Muslims' propaganda war against Western culture.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=9bc47f81-355d-4802-b2dd-d6b1d7a809c2&k=30870
The reason Muslim don't stand up to Islamic error is found in my recent post on 3 Heroes of Islam Die Today. No criticism of Islam or the Mullahs or the terrorists is condoned. It doesn't matter if the criticism is from Western individuals or from their own. Islam kills its critics.

"They are not speaking out against terrorists so they must be terrorists!" is not great reasoning. It raises suspicions, but it proves nothing. Really, it only justifies McCarthy-style blacklists--Ah! Charlie Chaplin never condemned Stalin in any of his films so he must be a communist!

You are not ignorant. You may be blind, but you are not ignorant. How might this statement be wrong? We have evidence that 75% of American mosques are carrying the Saud's extremist literature. We have investigative reporters exposing the most popular mosques in England teaching a different message than they are willing to reveal to the public. A message of hate and violent action against the sponsoring state. We have co-conspirators charged in the US for supporting terrorist regimes in Palestine and many un-indicted. We have Deerborn Michigan with a Madrassa and no go areas under threat of Islamic persecution. We have communique's urging young Muslims to participate in paintball games as a training tool for combat. We have live video feeds coming from Saudi Arabia teaching the Wahabist doctrines in the Mosques here and all around the world. This is not McCarthyism. This is you sticking your blind head in the sand and screaming at the "war mongers" to stop inciting to war. We are already being invaded via soft jihad. We are being opposed militarily by Iran in Iraq. We are being threatened by a nut who is straining to attain nuclear capability to use on a great ally. Turning the other cheek is not an option. Certainly ignoring the problem is not an option. Excusing the threat is retreating and giving victory to an opposing force without a fight.

That's the main deal for you, isn't it? You are so against the fight, you are willing to loose everything. Ahmadenijad isn't evil. Fighting is evil. When do the losses get bad enough for you to consider the fight worthwhile? After the Jews and Palestinians have been wiped out by a nuclear attack? After Ahmadenijad launches his first test bomb or missile. After he sends a division over the Iraq border? After he sends billions in retired weapons to Palestinians? After he sponsors terrorists in Iran? At what point do you say, "Well now you've done it!" ? If you aren't prepared to say enough at any point, what's the point in talking about it? Just say you are ready to surrender to the Islamic aggression and go convert.

Here's a fun fact about anti-Islamic paranoia

Islam really is that EEEEvil. Here's why I say this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5akLkIWN6MA
You have to look past the cheesy irreverence but the main facts presented in this little scit are accurate. This religion was born on the convenience of a War Clan Chief in the 7th century. His obvious ignorance of basic facts shows he was making it up as he went. Compared with other religions, some are more accurate, some are not at all accurate but they aren't basing their responsibility to world dominance by military might on those writings. Over 100 passages in the Qu'ran peppered front to back are. Either Muslims have to deny what the message was or they have to rewrite the books.

I am not suggesting that every person following the traditions of Islam are evil. I am suggesting the book itself is guiding them to evil. Some reject those passages, some try to interpret them as something they are not, and some believe them but don't exercise them. The vast majority are either in the last camp or in the most controversial one as shown by their behavior when Islam is insulted by cartoons and by their silence when people of other faiths or non faiths are killed in their lands or persecuted in our lands. Its not a secret. Your denial is obviously a disability to examine the facts and come to a logical conclusion.



[this is good]
Obama: A Clear and Present Danger
Keep spreading the word. This man is dangerous to our nation and way of life.
The President is not a dictator. There is no real danger from Barack Obama.
Judging by the bill Obama has already sponsored as a senator, the vastly increased power and influence he would have as pres would definitely make him a much greater threat. Have you seen the brownshirt/Obama youth comment? He has said he intends to have a civilian force as strong and well funded as the military. What is he talking about? Where is the funding going to come from for that, not to mention his stated intention to increase military numbers by 90,000 and then beat that number with civilian forces? The man is linked to Islam, to anti-American criminals, anti-American faith mentors, etc., I seriously am concerned he is a Muslim plant from 20+ years ago.
That's a ridiculous paranoid theory. The President will never be as powerful as Hitler because as soon as he [a Democrat] tries anything, the media will jump on him and ACTUALLY label him a latter-day Hitler. America has a lot of failsafes to prevent Democrats from being powerful.
How do you think Hitler converted Germany from a freedom loving people to a fascist controlled state? Do you think he won the power seat and just started ordering people to open the SS, the Brownshirts, and the Hitler Youth? It was by popularity and by coalescing all blame on the Eeeevil Jews. People who disagreed with Hitler's hysteria over the Jews were not willing to sacrifice their comfort to oppose his progressive step by little step toward totalitarianism. Obama slips this hint at a grand plan and that hint at a 10 year term and everybody in love with him ignores his criminal afiliations and support of an Islamo-Nazi candidate in Kenya and a bill in Congress that subordinates American sovereignty to the apalling track record of the U.N.. Now, maybe I am crazy. I actually hope I am nutter on this issue, but my suspicions are peaked because the media is not interested.
Hitler already had the instruments of fascist power in place BEFORE he assumed power. Obama has, what, shortsighted idealistic college students?

There is no grand plan and you are being a certifiable loony. You sound like Alex Jones and the Reptilian plot to conquer America, or the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or that ridiculous "Eurabia" guy, or those New World Order nutjobs.

I'm not insulting you, just cautioning you that you are coming off as a crazy man who believes in one of the many ridiculous world conquest/racial conspiracies of modern history. There is a phrase used by Robert Anton Wilson that I feel summarizes the confirmation bias very neatly: we all have two minds, the Thinker and the Prover. The Thinker thinks, and the Prover proves whatever the Thinker thinks. In other words, you LOOK for proof of your idea even when there is none.
Your understanding of history is also more than a little off.

Germany had democracy for 14 years before Hitler seized full power. 14 years under a useless republic incapable of serving the people's needs. Revolts, revolutions and uprisings by communists and others; mass murders; uncontrolled militia; hyperinflation so bad that it was cheaper to burn money than firewood. Did people love democracy? Did they love freedom? Unlikely, considering the misery that the Republic brought with it, considering how easily they supported a tyrant in order to revive their dying country. And revive it he did.

Hitler was empowered because there was no majority party and President Mismarck unwisely and unconstitutionally selected the leader of one minority radical party to be Chancellor instead of the leader of another minority radical party. Hitler was empowered by a subversion of democracy, not democratic processes. A better Hitler analogy here would be the Supreme Court deciding Bush won instead of counting the votes.

The SS were the successor of the SA; the unofficial, illegal militia organized by members of the unelected Nazi party. The Brownshirts and Hitler Youth can be compared to US secret services and the Young Republicans as easily as it can to anything Obama is suggesting. Remember that Obama is only suggesting a civilian militia that is IN LINE WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT. It is a check on government power.

The Jews were not the central reason people supported the Nazis. It was a shit time in Germany and they thought a radical new system [Fascism and Communism were very popular but also very scary] could improve the economy. Hitler was also not popularly elected.

The move towards totalitarianism wasn't very gradual. It all happened after the staged fire at the Reichstag. Hitler gained emergency powers that made him Dictator-For-Life.

Obama hasn't hinted at any "Grand Plan" except for one that you and other anti-Muslim conspiracy theorists have invented [What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves]. Obama's plan, to a non-conspiracy nut, is evidently non-existent. The main criticism of him outside of conspiracy theory circles is that he has no real direction or experience or substance. He's coasting on charm and rhetoric and great speaking prowess. What has he promised that Clinton didn't already?

Obama is not the only president with "criminal affiliations." Remember JFK and the mafia? Bush I and the Saudis? Bush II and the Saudis? Remember RICHARD NIXON?? Not to mention that the "Islamo-Nazi" he approved of is not actually an Islamist, regardless of whether or not he is collaborating with Islamists for political/career gain.

The UN comment is typical of New World Order conspiracy nuts, xenophobes, and confused minarchists.

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JudgeBob

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